• Episode

    Episode 4: Development and Teleomusicality with Mariusz Kozak and guest Andrea Schiavio

    Music Theorist Mariusz Kozak recommends “When the Sound Becomes the Goal. 4E Cognition and Teleomusicality in Early Infancy” by Andrea Schiavio, Dylan van der Schyff, Silke Kruse-Weber and Renee Timmers, published in Frontiers in Psychology. Marius and Finn interview Andrea about this framing of early musical development and implications of an embodied, embedded, extended and enactive approach to cognitive science.

    Time Stamps

    • [0:00:10] Intro with Mariusz
    • [0:11:16] Interview: Origins and the 4 Es
    • [0:21:40] Interview: Attention, Intention, and Mirror Neurons
    • [0:32:59] Interview: Sound Goals and Musical Actions
    • [0:40:28] Interview: Reception of Theory
    • [0:53:03] Closing with Mariusz

    Show notes

    • Recommended article:
    • Interviewee: Dr. Andrea Schiavio, Postdoctoral Researcher at University of Graz
    • Co-host: Prof. Mariusz Kozak, Assistant Professor of Music at Columbia University
    • Works cited in the discussion:
      • Chemero, A. (2011). Radical embodied cognitive science. MIT press.
      • Craighero, L., Leo, I., Umilta, C., and Simion, F. (2011). Newborns’ preference for goal-directed actions. Cognition, 20, 26–32. doi: 10.1016/j.cognition.2011 02.011
      • D’Ausilio, A. (2007). The role of the mirror system in mapping complex sounds into actions. The Journal of Neuroscience, 27, 5847–5848. doi:10.1523/JNEUROSCI.0979-07.2007
      • D’Ausilio, A. (2009). Mirror-like mechanisms and music. The Scientific World Journal, 9, 1415–1422. doi:10.1100/tsw.2009.160
      • Gerson, S. A., Bekkering, H., and Hunnius, S. (2015a). Short-term motor training, but not observational training, alters neurocognitive mechanisms of action processing in infancy. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, 27, 1207–1214. doi: 10.1162/jocn_a_00774
      • Haslinger, B., Erhard, P., Altenmüller, E., Schroeder, U., Boecker, H., & Ceballos-Baumann, A. O. (2005). Transmodal sensorimotor networks during action observation in professional pianists. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, 17, 282–293. doi:10.1162/0898929053124893
      • Haueisen, J., & Knösche, T. R. (2001). Involuntary motor activity in pianists evoked by music perception. Journal of Cognitive Neuroscience, 13, 786–792. doi:10.1162/08989290152541449
      • Hickok-Gallese debate at NYU (2103) Do Mirror Neurons Explain Anything?
      • Kohler, E., Keysers, C., Umiltà, M. A., Fogassi, L., Gallese, V., and Rizzolatti, G. (2002). Hearing sounds, understanding actions: action representation in mirror neurons. Science, 297, 846–848. doi: 10.1126/science.1070311
      • Menary, R. (2010). Introduction to the special issue on 4E cognition. Phenomenology and the Cognitive Sciences, 9, 459–463.
      • Mukamel R., Ekstrom A.D., Kaplan J., Iacoboni M., Fried I., Single-Neuron Responses in Humans during Execution and Observation of Actions. Current Biology, vol. 20, nº 8.
      • Novembre, G., Ticini, L. F., Schütz-Bosbach, S., & Keller, P. E. (2014). Motor simulation and the coordination of joint actions in real time. Social Cognitive and Affective Neuroscience, 9, 1062–1068. doi: 10.1093/scan/nst086
      • Overy, K., and Molnar-Szakacs, I. (2009). Being together in time: musical experience and the mirror neuron system. Music Perception, 26, 489–504. doi: 10.1525/mp.2009.26.5.489
      • Perone, S., Madole, K. L., Ross-Sheehy, S., Carey, M., and Oakes, L. M. (2009). The relation between infants’ activity with objects and attention to object appearance. Developmental Psycholology, 44, 1242–1248. doi: 10.1037/0012-1649.44.5.1242
      • Proffitt, D. R., Stefanucci, J., Banton, T., & Epstein, W. (2003). The role of effort in perceiving distance. Psychological Science, 14(2), 106-112.
      • Schiavio, A. & Timmers, R. (2016). Motor and audiovisual learning consolidate auditory memory of tonally ambiguous melodies. Music Perception, 34(1), 21-32
      • Schiavio, A. & van der Schyff, D. (2016). Beyond musical qualia. Reflecting on the concept of experience. Psychomusicology: Music, Mind, & Brain, 26(4), 366-378
      • Thompson, E. (2007). Mind in life: Biology, phenomenology, and the sciences of mind. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press.
      • Varela, F., Thompson, E., & Rosch, E. (1991). The Embodied Mind. Cambridge, MA: The MIT Press.
      • Wilson, A. D., & Golonka, S. (2013). Embodied cognition is not what you think it is. Frontiers in psychology, 4, 58.


    The So Strangely Podcast is produced by Finn Upham, 2018. 

    The closing music includes a sample of Deutsch’s Speech-Song Illusion Sound Demo 1.